tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post5997279208454393900..comments2024-03-06T07:06:38.928-08:00Comments on JSBlog - Journal of a Southern Bookreader: Dr Church's steam coach: 1830s vapourwareRay Girvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-21155768425131590582013-03-24T05:33:11.983-07:002013-03-24T05:33:11.983-07:00question I have to old framed pictures of his how ...question I have to old framed pictures of his how would I find out if they real??Our Kind of Perfecthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09029272758064806358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-2701997698130756512012-05-21T13:00:01.509-07:002012-05-21T13:00:01.509-07:00Finding any information on steam coaches is diffic...Finding any information on steam coaches is difficult enough but to come across such interesting facts is sublime. I've had the picture of Dr Church's coach in my mind for over 40 years having once seen it in a book. It is a delightful notion that a giant Reliant Robin mated with a Steam roller ever went anywhere. Alas to find it was a not quite the jolly success it appeared. <br /><br />Presumably the fact that Steam Coaches didn't appear elsewhere indicates they were defeated by technology rather than legislation. Imagine trying to stop one!JohnAHobsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03902066872650429655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-48914920602982203212010-03-29T09:25:56.478-07:002010-03-29T09:25:56.478-07:00You sure that thing isn't a steamroller that w...You sure that thing isn't a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ruthemeyer_Miss-Elli_vr1.jpg" rel="nofollow">steamroller</a> that wandered off the reservation?Dr. Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-21536324442091813042010-03-29T20:23:39.437-07:002010-03-29T20:23:39.437-07:00Could be! I can't find the citation at this in...Could be! I can't find the citation at this instant, but at least one modern commentator has argued that the whole ripping-up-the-road argument to ban them was bogus: that the big wide wheels actually would have flattened the road and done less damage than narrow cartwheels and horses' hooves.Ray Girvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-86287840854248427612010-04-03T10:06:00.475-07:002010-04-03T10:06:00.475-07:00It's hard to imagine that something that large...It's hard to imagine that something that large and heavy running on solid wheels could have sustained 15mph on what passed for roads at that time. What did it do for grip? It must have needed a lot of coal, too!J Bonington Jagworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16276478597326413459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-40250904623962156042010-04-03T10:19:02.175-07:002010-04-03T10:19:02.175-07:00What did it do for grip?Well, F = μ * N (frictiona...What did it do for grip?<br><br>Well, F = μ * N (frictional force = coefficient of friction times normal reaction) - meaning something really heavy has grip even if the contacting surfaces are moderately slippery at low loads; think of trains.<br><br>But it doesn't seem likely. The Gurney steam coach, that did achieve around that speed workably, was more of a lightweight motorised carriage.Ray Girvanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-61042509676742032262010-04-16T19:46:15.821-07:002010-04-16T19:46:15.821-07:00Thanks, Ray Girvan, for exposing the "Dr"...Thanks, Ray Girvan, for exposing the "Dr" Church steam carriage "vapourware" (I don't believe he was any kind of doctor). The false story of a daily 14 mph Birmingham – London service has become a ubiquitous internet "meme". The London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co (LBSC) was projected in 1832 with a capital of £200,000 in £20 shares, allegedly over-subscribed. The chairman was colourful Birmingham financier and pioneer alderman Henry Van Wart (1784-1873) who like Church was American-born. It is alleged that LBSC was established by act of parliament, but it seems rather to have been established by an "indenture or deed of settlement" dated 3 Nov 1834. The company was dissolved by its directors on 11 May 1837, as is announced by aptly-named LBSC secretary W R Kettle in the only London Gazette entry relating directly to LBSC. There is only one other London Gazette entry (13 Jan 1837) that mentions LBSC. This relates to bankrupt "button and military ornament manufacturer, dealer and chapman" Joseph Phipson, whose "shares and interest" in LBSC were part of the assets under consideration.Peter Walfordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-48831288242626848762010-06-29T16:13:50.164-07:002010-06-29T16:13:50.164-07:00Further research on William Church’s Birmingham st...Further research on William Church’s Birmingham steam bus experiment has revealed that I did him an injustice when I said that he wasn’t "any kind of doctor". He is listed in Pigot's 1835 Directory as "Church William, physician, Haywood House, Bordesley Green". In penance, I will now always call him "Dr Church"! As his Wikipedia biography describes, tragedy followed Dr Church in his later life. He built a steam locomotive which was named "Victoria", "Surprise" and "Eclipse" at various stages of its life. On 10 November 1840 its boiler exploded at Bromsgrove station, killing driver Thomas Scaife instantly and fatally injuring fireman John Rutherford.<br><br>There was another steam bus venture in Birmingham at about the same time as Dr Church's. This was by the brothers W G and R Heaton (from a family later famous for their involvement in the Birmingham mint). This seems to have been conducted with more decorum and respectability, and ended in November 1834 when the Heatons Steam Carriage Co was wound up, paying investors £1 per share. I append two contemporary articles which give the flavour of the Heatons' experiment.<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>Peter Walford.<br>Latrobe, Tasmania.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-37505604610044266152010-06-29T16:16:44.509-07:002010-06-29T16:16:44.509-07:00From Peter Walford (as promised).The Birmingham Jo...From Peter Walford (as promised).<br><br>The Birmingham Journal (Monday 2 Sep 1833).<br><br>Steam Carriage.<br><br>On Wednesday last [28 Aug 1833], our townsmen Messrs Heaton (brothers) made another experiment with their steam coach, to ascend the hill at Bromsgrove Lickey, which is a loose sandy surface, so much so, that the wheels of their machine (about fifty hundred weight) carried a hill of sand before them about three inches deep. The hill is about seven hundred yards along, and rises on an average one yard in nine, and in some places one yard in eight, and is declared by eminent surveyors to be the worst piece of road in the kingdom. This hill was mounted by their machine, with a stage coach attached, fifteen hundred weight, and nine persons, in nine minutes, in the presence of about two hundred spectators.<br><br>They then took up their friends, twenty in number, they had brought from Birmingham, making twenty five, and proceeded on to Bromsgrove, as far as the Market place; there they turned the machine round, and returned to the Crab Mill Inn, about fifteen miles; this was accomplished in two hours and twenty two minutes, including all stoppages. Having stayed a considerable time at the Crab Mill Inn, they returned home, calling at the various places on the road where they had before called in the morning, and receiving the congratulation of their friends at having accomplished the greatest undertaking in the history of steam locomotion on the common road. They arrived in Birmingham, bringing with them, up Worcester street, an ascent of one yard in twelve, thirty two persons.<br><br>[Quoted in The Pittsburgh Gazette (24 Oct 1833). Accessed through Google News 18 Apr 2010.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8937414969460147900.post-55886835614749207402010-06-29T16:16:44.508-07:002010-06-29T16:16:44.508-07:00From Peter Walford, as promised.Mechanics' Mag...From Peter Walford, as promised.<br><br>Mechanics' Magazine, Museum, Register, Journal and Gazette. No 560 (3 May 1834). Letter to the Editor. [Somewhat edited.]<br><br>Sir, — The advocates for steam travelling on common turnpike-roads have, for some time past, been anxiously awaiting the debut of Messrs Heaton Brothers' new locomotive, which has at length taken place. The sanguine expectations which Messrs Heatons previously eminently successful experiments gave rise to, have, however, been disappointed by the results of more recent trials with the new and more powerful engine. In this engine the weight, wear and tear, and consumption of steam have proved so much greater than was calculated upon, that Messrs Heatons have been compelled to entertain views on the subject differing widely from those with which they started.<br><br>In the course of a few experimental trips with their new engine, which is a very beautiful machine, Messrs Heatons have been compelled to doubt the possibility of steam locomotion on common roads, at an average speed of ten miles an hour, the wear and tear of machinery, with other incidental expenses, being so great as to exceed any probable receipts; profitable running, therefore, at this speed — and it is presumed a slower would not be tolerated — they believe to be impracticable.<br><br>The following paragraph appeared in the Birmingham Journal of the 12th instant: —<br><br>"We are authorised by the committee of Heatons' Steam-Carriage Company to state that the result of the experiments hitherto made with their engine has not proved satisfactory, and that they will shortly call a meeting of the shareholders to take into consideration a communication made to the committee by Messrs Heatons on the subject."<br><br>After expending upwards of two thousand pounds in endeavouring to effect steam travelling, Messrs Heatons now retire from the field; their candid and upright conduct throughout this business is highly honourable to them, and forms a striking contrast to the delusions practised elsewhere.<br><br>I am, sir, yours respectfully,<br><br>W Baddeley.<br>10 Wilderness Row, Goswell Street.<br>April 28, 1834.<br><br>[The phrase "the delusions practised elsewhere" possibly refers to Dr Church's venture.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com